In the center of the 13.05.2012 About ” Career women against Super-cluck. Who are the better mothers?”
OFF spokesman (ORF)
Tonight, in the center: Career women against Super-cluck. Who are the better mothers? “In the center” mit Ingrid Thurnher.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Ladies and Gentlemen, I bid you a warm welcome. “In the center” on Mother's Day, been a day in the countless poems recited, ideally delivered breakfast in bed was and should enjoy handmade objects from children's hands the mother. Is behind all this homage to all other 364 Days of the ideological debate about the role of mother with unabated violence continues. And when it comes to the question, how far are compatible with motherhood careers? If you like a bad mother, If you have a child early on foreign assistance leaves? And how much is actually a mother needs child? Questions with a lot of political, ideological and social dynamite. And we'll talk about today with these guests:
OFF spokesman (ORF)
Eva Dichand – the editor of the newspaper for free “Today”: In a free country, every woman should have the opportunity, to decide. Die Autorin Eva Herman, with her book “Das Eva-Prinzip” has caused quite a stir means, a mother is not a Cricket on the Hearth, but she has a mission in life: Mothers, let's appreciate you again. The uprising of the Bad Mother-time columnist Jutta Hoffritz calls in her book on: I oppose since the birth of my son's brave the baby yoga, the Early English and all other offers of employment nut industry. The FPÖ politician Barbara Rosenkranz is ten times the mother and convinced: Self-confident femininity and motherhood are not mutually caring. Sabine Oberhauser: The OGB is the executive vice president of opinion: Child and career may not be a contrast.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
I will start tonight – Ladies and Gentlemen – with a woman, the public has no function, writes no books, But taking care of six children – not yet, say you – care of six children, four of which are your own, Two, you have to speak from outside the family.
Siller Bärbel (Private)
Lost to.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Lost to. How do you say, You are a committed full-time mother. Believe, so that your children, because you are always around them, later time will have a better life?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
So I'm not dimensions to be considered in any. I think, We are all mothers, the best for their children to. And I feel so, I want my children to be at least another three years, ever since. I have always kept. Whether it is better – I do not want the cheap. But I feel so, and I think, the later one will hear again, what the children say.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
So there it is now time for the particular, what you would like to, less about, where do you think, which is the better for the children?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
I think that is already, that for children – I feel so, that it is safe for the children is not as good, if they are very early in a manger. So I would also children so – I get why children, because I also like to see, as they grow up. And yes, So I think, There is also a bit of selfishness here, because I just want to see it, I want to feel it, I want to be just, when they learn all sorts of things and play and that's just wonderful news!.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Do you have a distrust of – for example – state care facilities, Kindergartens, Nurseries, Childminders or similar?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
So I think, Distrust each mother, times when their child is out of hand. A certain feeling of mistrust is always there. But I think, before you look at this, yes. So a great deal of mistrust does not exist.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Have you ever missed, realized and professionally to be able in any manner?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
So I was involuntarily also a single parent and I had to or allowed to work – paid externally, I want to say. Currently I am working unpaid intern. And I have enjoyed very much. So I got to know several professional groups also had two children and then next to it and I know, as it was for me. And that was sometimes very difficult.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And you have brought a sign, Hide the still modest, But we want to look at it like so, because it is a bit too I think shows, what you take as a parent can claim.
Siller Bärbel (Private)
And, I just think, I do not want to have to listen to again and again, do you work? Because I work. I often work 24 Hours a day, and I am now just returned from an intensive care. My children – two of my children – leaves were wet and I had to be worked around the clock.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well. So here we see the company Mama Ltd.. Around the Clock cold, hot food, all cleaning operations, Relationship advice, School- and education issues, Services of all kinds. Business hours 24 Hours a day. Do you seriously in, that it makes a difference for your children, if you do the cleaning work or someone else, for example,?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
No, I do not think. But I think, a mother is not easy at all replaceable. Perhaps in the short term. But in general, not. That's just my opinion.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Thank you for the time being, Frau Siller.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
A mother is irreplaceable, says the persuaded full-time mother Bärbl Siller. Mrs. Dichand, They keep for itself partly replaced, or? They are a full-time manager, have three children, the youngest is just two.
Eva Dichand (Today)
So in principle, are mothers and fathers and children need not be replaced once both, I think, a mother and a father. And I am very fortunate, I have a husband, makes a lot of the children. Who is also chief editor of a major newspaper, which has the advantage, that does not work as lawyers to nine or ten in the evening, but after the first pressure can go home again. And I must say honestly, I have been with the third child less. I have a partner and managing director, with whom I have identified – Imagine that you have, that someone makes, throughout the stress, we have, I'm home all school holidays. So, this autumn holiday, Christmas Holiday, New Year's Eve, Easter holidays – is relatively much.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
So as a teacher actually.
Eva Dichand (Today)
And, exactly. Except that I think something in between I work more and actually even a bit of work. And I say a man had, of which has supported from the beginning is as follows, when he has actually paid at the beginning of the child care, because I would have my child placed in a nursery, where a supervisor watching over fifteen children and three months old.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Since there is a nanny or something in the way.
Eva Dichand (Today)
And, can safely say, the one in Austria once said, because this is a fact, that people, which are very successful, much work and if you work yourself fifty hours, are you going to a nursery place, to the 16 Clock is the latest from – if you get one at all – not go far. So I had with the first two children a Maternity Nurse. I am a week after the hospital – So right from the hospital went back to the office. So so 24 Hours with a perfect training. I have two fixed salaried Nanny – a German and an English – working in the bike, just because I work during the week very much. I go home for lunch – So that's the luxury, I allow myself – Also there will be cooked. So I do not cook, but I eat it with the two little ones, the back are from kindergartens. So there is much cause division. It has really been this bad conscience, but I'm not so extreme, because I know, that the children very, be looked after very well. This is important.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
So yes guilty, but well secured by a bunch of forces, take care of it.
Eva Dichand (Today)
So my nanny, this is a trained teacher, is so incredibly great at Türmchenbauen and crafts. I'm insanely bad in Türmchenbauen and crafts, because I am patient, and only twenty minutes than two hours, So that's somehow been ausgesourct. I just do it then other things with the kids. But it's obviously not a normal life. You can not compare now with someone, the no choice as his child now to put them in a nursery, because he's just not a man, at the beginning of the pay, until you yourself deserve as much, that it will pay itself can.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
A very different family history, Ms Rosenkranz, They have behind them. Man muss ja sagen, if you look at your life from the outside – as far as one can – They have ten children, have made a remarkable political career, So are really a career woman, if you like. Their youngest child is just – I think – just over ten. And you obviously at the end of the career but was more important than the children? Or how is that to interpret?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
No. If I would have lined here, The children were clearly the most important. By the way: In the future appears “Profile” – so wonderful mezzo-soprano Elina Garanca said the: We, The women of the younger generation, in contrast to earlier generations, place the child in first place and how they enjoyed it, So to spend this time with the child. And sing to them only, she says – a wonderful singer – The second most important job in the world. So I would definitely see again.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
But if you were twenty years now stuck with your children at home -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
I'm fifteen years with my kids stayed home and were now on Mother's Day, thank God all the back and of course we have discussed this evening appearance today and especially with my daughters – There are six daughters – and they said, please can one here – and I do hereby: We young women do not want us to say of the policy, how we make the divisions regarding work and family, how we organize ourselves with our partners, we can do all by myself. And especially my oldest daughter, The mother of three children is now, completed their studies but also has now pregnant with her third child, The little girl is three months old says, I would not let me say, When I give my child away from home. I want to decide themselves, When I return to work, I must tell you, I am the person concerned, When can I expect it to my child. And a word about these wonderful full-time mother – Incidentally, they would have President Obama's full support in this debate in America. That was a very fine story, how Romney has attacked woman, that she had in her life worked a single day, has told them, I've raised five boys, and believe me, that was hard work. And Obama had now settled and is immediately jumped up and said, His mother, Raising children is the hardest job in the world. That was a wonderful thing. So I see absolutely even this position. They want to live with his children. But to round out: The most important is probably, here not to play against each other, will be tried as the title of this show, of course, a bit. This career woman – and that's very positive reception – and this super hen, this is such a silly hen so somewhere a bit, on it sits on the child and their broods. So I think this opposition constructed. I think, include more women leaders. And the life expectancy of a girl born today is a hundred years. It should be possible, if young women wish, reserve a few years for the family exclusively.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, Once we ask the woman Hoffritz: Do you also feel, that this opposition is constructed? In your book, the revolt of the Bad Mother, comes out even more, you – working mother of a child – feel a bit sometimes portrayed as such, because you are working.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
So you will be asked again, how does that work and you've got a child now. So to fix it: I have three children. Two great daughters married, who have been brought up very well come into my life. And it was really interesting, when I gave birth to my son and then came all these questions and yes, I've also made the acquaintance of PEKIP and Triple P and all these other wonderful educational trends, I do not know, if that's so modern in Austria, that one's child in the third month of life to the Early English must take. So in Germany it's very en vogue. And yes, I had forced myself to deal with it and had to justify myself, I do not even want to make a career. I just wanted to continue working as normal. I'm an editor. Ordinary typist. So I do not know, whether one can even call the career. But of course, I wanted to continue working. And I wanted to write a book at the time even. Actually, a very different. And then I talked to my book agent, and then you say, Mrs. Hoffritz, You mean because, that you create that now even writing a book, because you've got but the child and then you want it to work again soon. Und dann sage ich, and, that's right, But you know, I am a bad mother. She says, what is that, a bad mother? The book agent, has no children. Und dann sageAnd then I saye do not go to baby yoga, I do not even Early English, and if all this does not, but simply dealt only with the normal child, then you have much time left in the evening, because it is not even out Рor rare. And then she says, Baby-Yoga? What is that? Then I explained it to her, that it is somehow in major German cities yoga studios, where to go with his freshly tossed children and those with yoga exercises or makes Early English, where the child in the Maxi-Cosi brings those needs before. So educational tourism in the baby carrier. And since we both laughed heartily, and then we both have the phone for longer than we originally planned and in the end we were born the idea for a book. Originally I wanted to write about health policy. But then I did while I was actually writing about health policy, I had somehow so the synopsis for this book and thought gescribbelt, This book really should be written first but now, because obviously you have to explain that yes still. And all the more now that there are all these wonderful offers of employment nut industry and we must not only justify, if you do not even mashed the M̦rchenbreichen, but if you then also deprives the child the baby yoga. And, and then I Рshe sold the book fairly quickly and then I had to write it.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Mrs. Herman, You will find, that the woman is a bad mother Hoffritz?
Herman Eva (Private)
So I think, that Ms. Hoffritz interpreted the term differently than bad mother is actually the case. Because the mothers are bad mothers actually, neglect their children more in the leadership and go to work and give away the children. These are the Bad Mother. You throw the M̦rchenbrei and the baby-yoga into a pot. The mother, the home is, cooks the Moerchen small and mashed it to the child and likes to do it. But not necessarily have to baby-yoga. I also believe, that the baby yoga is a bit of a lifestyle problem, Not everyone is confronted with the. Also РWe both live in Hamburg and I did not see me forced to.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
I think, There is also a very young fashion. And I must say, I have written this book, I spoke with my cousin, which is almost to the day, as old as me and through high school, our curricula vitae Sun – how to say? – which were as alike as peas in a pod and then she did get an education and then four children and I have studied and from time to time we will meet again in this small Bavarian town, and discuss our lives, and then she says, You wrote a book about parenting, ist ja interesting, narrative and tell me some particular, was ist Baby-Yoga und Early English und PEKIP? And I thought -
Eva Dichand (Today)
But there is still much more, because there are so loud so things -
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
And, There are many more. But I was pleasantly surprised, that you can bring up four children in Germany – and there are wonderful children, it must be said – and you do not know PEKIP.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Explain some of us this phrase PEKIP?
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
It sounds as if it is a programming course. And similarly it is also. It is of course in programming the software of the newborn child. It is therefore in a well heated room. Mothers and children are lightly dressed. And mothers bend and stretch the muscles and sing to their children in time to the music and then dance series Ringel. So when you see the movie “Three Men and a Baby” is the film, I think, has seen, then saw this condensation fogged window panes of the Berlin backyard, takes place behind the mother-child course, then you know about, as -
Eva Dichand (Today)
That's more occupational therapy for the mother, or?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
The affect me only a very narrow layer.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
It's the Urban Mums, that's right. But since I am now come purely by chance. One can also say, it is the elderly academics-mothers, that somehow their career then stop short and then project their whole ambition of the child. But if you like me lives in a big city and then with 39 a child gets, then it is brought to a. So you can do in any major German city hospital a childbirth class – yes then do it all somehow – without this leaflet into my hand to get.
Herman Eva (Private)
So I disagree. I am also 39 and have been from the same town, where you live now. And I'm not even drum came around and was confronted. I also believe, that this is really a luxury problem, So that's no problem now, for our viewers, the look here, where the mother has the children to bed right now and the day is done, that now can understand the essential.
Eva Dichand (Today)
And, But I think, There is already a kind of meritocracy, where we used to always want more and more of the children. So that's now just an expensive course. But it is equally, that people begin, I know, The children must be able to have three ice skating. My mother always said, this is so ridiculous, when people train the children to count to twenty three, and when they are talking about just anything can. If they learn it then with five within an hour. So that's, I think a bissl, this one that just wants everything always used with ever wilder methods.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
I want to still capture some, because we talk about children later also with an expert, we have here in the studio, and a little bit to stay with the maternal role. Mrs. Oberhauser, They have two children, have made a career – that it must be said once – You're a doctor, Deputy, now Vice President of the Austrian Trade Union Federation, a large, powerful organization. Such a career also does not quite incidentally. Do your children suffered, Believe? Or did you have to feel bad in your life as a mother?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
So if my children have suffered, would have to ask my children and not me. I'm in the discussion, that we discuss here a lot from our own selfishness and also the question, whether this is good for me or if I have a guilty conscience is one thing. The question is, what's good for my children.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Let's talk very briefly once on their conscience.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
The bad conscience have been repeatedly. And not for the reason, that I neglect my children, I've never had. But it hits a – my children are grown, they are 24 und 22, two magnificent, capable girl, I've tried both models. When I was three big home, because I've been waiting on my cycle-space. And when the little I went to work as 9 Months old. They are both equally well developed, they both have the same conditions. That is, Both models try, both compare well. Of course, it meets a, if you notice, that the children have other contact. But the main thing they have other contact. This is not, I think, the privilege of the mother alone, so the only contact for worry and grief, and for dirty laundry and Mundabtupfen to be. And what I want to say, what me about this whole debate – We are conducting a very privileged discussion, ja?and
Eva Dichand (Today)
Some have no chance, the need to go to work, whether they like it or not.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
An extremely privileged debate on the question, I will decide whether to go to work very much the reality of life for women. And you said, Bad mothers are the, to go to work and their children at home -
Herman Eva (Private)
In quotes.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Not care how. And leave their children at home. So I do not feel as bad mothers. And you said, The women want to vote. This is exactly. The women want to have freedom of choice.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Only they can not, because of economic constraints make it almost impossible, that a family can live on one salary.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
And, on the one hand. Exactly. And because of the policy and the conditions often make it impossible, that women can in good conscience give their children high quality care in the afternoon. We have the privilege in Vienna, I say, many kindergartens and childcare centers to have – and Childcare settings – where one can give his child there without feeling guilty.
Eva Dichand (Today)
If you get a place.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
There are enough places. When the sub-3-year-olds still expanding, there's no question.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
I think, We must distinguish the phases of life a bit.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But I think, it is not the task of policy, a woman, prescribe any of a mother living. That is, they must decide. And they can not currently.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Without economic coercion.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But how do you want to do that without economic coercion?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
If I can not live from one salary – if it's not a very good salary is -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
And, But that's the reality of life. The reality of life is – and that women want to work.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
One of these options, So here to take away the constraint was the child benefit, which has not been valorized by the way since its introduction. Quite the contrary, it is withdrawn continuously.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But who says, that the reality of life of women is also, not to live off the child benefit, but perfectly willing to be realized in an occupation they want to. Just as there will be what, who say, I want to stay with my child at home. This is both to accept. But you have to show too easy, what it takes then?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Of course, of course, no question! So if I, the child care money, child benefit was precisely this neutral medium. You can fund a non-home care or you can order the second income, which precipitates, at least partially compensate for. So it was an absolutely effective means to me and it is completely incomprehensible – when one considers the freedom of choice in the foreground, the young women would indeed – So why is this child benefit gradually withdraws, rather than expand. It is – as I said – not been adjusted since its introduction. A loss of value 20 Percent. And all the initiatives – especially the Minister – go in completely the other direction. I read in an interview in “Standard”, where it says, I understand this is mother-in-her-child mentality does not. I do not understand, why can not the young women the freedom, to do it either way and provides a framework for.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
I'd rather have the freedom of young women, to choose. A profession -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
But they can not, when -
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
So as you can see, Ladies and Gentlemen, been the political and ideological differences between the two poles, sitting here, I think a bit. But if you already speak with the child benefit: In Germany there is just a very, very lively debate about a children's money, if one wants to say, which is then paid out, if the women remain at home and the children are not in a “We”, what that is in Germany for so, a day care center, brings, to relieve the day-care centers. “Herdprämie” which is then referred to derisively by many. Mrs. Herman, Yes you have in your book and the Eva-Principle. Yes you are applying this very traditional roles of husband and wife, So you have to actually find really great, such a “Herdprämie”, with quotCooker bonus
Herman Eva (Private)
And, I've always made it very. I think the amount was too low to 150 Euro, I would set it higher. And if I keep hearing this ridiculous discussion, which is conducted in Germany, that no money will be there, while we powders billion in support of the Euro-, we never see again. But when it comes, building society, to support, because we have not even 150 Euro for Kind for Monat, I have to ask me, what are the goals of such a country? The women are vilified, The stove is defamed as premium, and there is a…
Eva Dichand (Today)
In which, in Austria we have actually independent.
Herman Eva (Private)
And it is this discussion is actually always, even when we are discussing now, It is always about, what we want women? Do we want to make a career, we want to realize ourselves? This is an important question, I've asked myself am also and have also made career. I just think, if I had taken earlier someone like Eva Herman, for example,, the opposite would have claimed – I was brainwashed by only one flow: Women need to make a career. And I think, I would have paused at least once as a young woman and would have considered: Do you do it really right? I think, jede Frau soll Karriere machen – Astrid Lindgren has said what a great: The said, Every woman should have a career, to provide training, to study, But then if there are children, then they should not sit home and think: What a shame, I have to sit at home. Since I can only support you, Ms Rosenkranz. Why will not you share the life stages and in fact says: I'll take care of the children at this time. For what is in this discussion again and again completely left out, that is the question, how good is it really for the child?
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Since we are talking about it right.
Herman Eva (Private)
Is good.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Have you – They have brainwashed themselves felt, Mrs. Fritz, Mrs. Dichand?
Eva Dichand (Today)
Also, I really only know the person already – So it starts to breastfeeding. Whether or not a person satisfies, this is the first social pressure, ja, So especially those, The course will not work, but you can breastfeed indeed work if you go. Also, I breastfed her first child, that has had such a strong atopic, the second then it has been called, not breast; and then you realize that pressure, comes from outside, So begins the really well in the hospital at some already in the pediatric nurses, and then of course there are in all levels, ja, if you do not make any of these things can mande someone may, the stop throughout the day the child is, but also because you have to liberate themselves. I think, We live in a free country, and it must always be able to decide everything, except in the legal framework, that it does not really hurt a child. Also, knowing if you are breastfeeding a child is really up to the age of four, weiÃAlsoh nicht, would probably be discussed with a doctor, if not then get the stuff to have any little – weiß ich nicht, But we sayI do not knowe normal framework, I think everybody do as he thinks. But there is the pressure.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
Also, I wanted to make a quick note to Mrs. Herman and also to you, because it sounded somehow so, like we were in a country like Germany, what is family policy does not; I would like to correct the times on the site. I think, If you add up the benefits, come families in Germany and also benefit mothers, So now not only child allowances, which can flow directly into the education of children so, but also a social freedom, the non-working mothers get, Exemption from taxes and so on. Also, We have a portfolio of top, and yet…Also
Unknown / r (Private)
Objection. That's not true at all.
Herman Eva (Private)
Not true, not true, on the contrary: It has been reallocated, there used to be a lot more money for children and families.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But there is the question, whether cash is actually, if not in kind are simply far more ideal than
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
And, or because you always use the French example: If you look at just, there just like the tax on the subsistence of children regardless of increases. It is interesting…
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
And!
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Of course. And that just is not a family with each child continues to fall below this level, they would have, if not, these children would, So family and children is called social decline – France is not the signal, with us this signal is indeed. So it is completely false commitments, So this would only families economically…
Eva Dichand (Today)
May I have what
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But the French give their children relatively quickly in
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
… only economically
Eva Dichand (Today)
It's not all just cash, it's also when you see as the problems we have with integration and with schools, ja, So the schools are getting worse, ja, with us, because it is precisely also saves, instead that there is a money reinbuttert. Also, it is not always everything just cash, you get, ja, because, for example in Vienna earlier in whole districts are all gone to school, the next was, Now in Vienna there are – I think this is a typical big city phenomenon – So fighting for what I know, where to hold his child, just because there are such differences between good and bad schools. And I think, This is also the responsibility of the State, has nothing whatsoever to do with direct cash, and realizing that everyone has an education, that each child can come to the best university in the world, even if it from an entirely, very poor family comes, ja, and that's what, is not discussed at all about the, because that is – then it has also – If there are this large in the family, where do you get hold values ​​and Dings, But there is already our – I do not know, what we have, 15 Years of compulsory education or 14, no idea, So also have a public system, actually what his role is no longer as true as it does now, would need, ja, much too slowly adapts to all this stuff, the change of course now.and
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Eva Dichand (Today)
Nine of compulsory education
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
But we've looked at and there's a study to. What did the women of the next generation, Women and men must be said, the next generation would like to. As for this topic. Have explored the political scientist Peter Filzmaier and motivation researcher Sophie Karmasin for Family Ministry and its Youth Monitor has launched a really pretty surprising finding. Try.
OFF spokesman (ORF)
The youth is more conservative than expected. Every other young woman would like to sacrifice her job for being a housewife. But only, Chosen as the lucky enough to deserve. As for the education of children, so my 95 Percent of femininity, that her partner is just as responsible. The lords of creation are there but rather more cautious. Only 79 Percent will be dedicated to the education of children. When child care is, however, the respondents agreed. Seated 77 Percent would like to, that their future offspring, the first three years of life are cared for at home. And although the parents. The only question, Who takes care of the livelihood? And if for the next generation?
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And, I now ask you wife Oberhauser. The rosary woman writes in her book “Inside Man” is the. Everyone at the table already has almost written a book. A relevant. She says, that women's organizations, legal Frauenvertretrer speak through their actions with as many full-time employees, as much as possible, as many, Pardon, Full-time jobs for mothers of young children. Actually creates a trend, do not want to have the mothers of young children. Do as against, to what young people really want as we have seen develop concepts?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Also, We know from the, from the lived realities of women already in the profession are, that their part-time work is female. That some of the women is quite happy to work part-time. But that the real choice is not currently available. Das heißt, It lacks just as I said at the possibility of adequate child care. They lack the ability to find a full time job. Das heißt, by women, who are in employment, There are very many, who do not volunteer part-time and where you absolutely must look, that there are other ways. The question is where, at the Youth Monitor, We have just in, discussed in the off, that sounds, from the youthful romance that sounds pretty good. I am looking for a rich man, stay at home and cared for me, in Vienna, every other divorced. Das heißt, the rich man must remain at the bar. And I've also tried a little pThat isebook and to ask, was, what you give me and then I had a woman answered, who said, I have been with my children at home, then went part time and I feel now in my pension.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
This can be solved but. This can be solved.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
That is, of course you must, that is, you must of course look, that in the spheres of life and the life course, of the realities of life. The ideal family is no longer in many cases. We have heard here, There are also lots, have also reconstituted families, where you look very well be.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Exactly and that's a personal choice, because then at least…
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
And, But the choice must be.
Eva Dichand (Today)
… have a good education, can decide yes, I stay at home, then I can just buy a designer dress to 200 Euro, because…
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But the privileged discussion, I do not bring my everyday life. This is, is,..
Eva Dichand (Today)
Well, But that's, that's normal for people already well
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
No, no.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Could I just bring a different aspect? There are…
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
The discussion I did not lead.
Eva Dichand (Today)
But I find it, with the social, we have you can stay in and of itself at home. The Rahmenbedinungen.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Ich glaube, dass viele Frauen auch nicht von den Sozialleistungen leben wollen. I think, that many women do not want to live on welfare benefits.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But Mrs. Rosary, You're always the one, which tells us, that we are the children, that the children are born with very poor conditions in the school then.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
I?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
In der Frage, and.On the questione, in der Frage, in the question, the…
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Also, but not at all.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
On the question, how children learn German, for example,.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Also, I do not think, that the family provides a worse condition for children to be, to develop as an extra-home care.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Now imagine you are now once, They, You have a mother at home, do not speak German with their children. That is, The difficulty has simply bring their child into the school and so other things. The question is, whether a well-qualified child educational institution, as the nursery today are already, the children not much longer to, offer opportunities, as a private English baby or other things.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Ms Rosenkranz. Let's stay on the subject may, and as I read in amazement the FPÖ Party Programme: The care of children in a family shelter, we prefer to state compensation measures. Support services for parents are up to school age to provide. So school entry age is six years my knowledge. Does this, You want to prefer, that by the age of six children in the home, maternal care and remain that the state pays for it?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
The kindergarten is certainly a good system, which is also claimed. But the means of neutral money, it allows mothers to the parents or allow, the child care home and can afford it or to put them in a non-residential care, is certainly a good option. I'd be very happy, if you would limit the child care money is not always on successive, and then consider the time for urgent action. But again back to the topic: It has to be done and funded childcare. And the economic argument, We have not the money anyway, can therefore apply in any way for things like child care money, because the alternative method, which is then proposed, namely the expansion of nursery, cost so many times would.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
I wonder at this point now, once again the woman Siller, our mother, We have all met at the beginning of the program. Frau Siller, openly: Have you married a rich man?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
I have not looked at money's.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
But now you know it so.
Siller Bärbel (Private)
But I'll tell you one – we are dealing here not about the man, The money brings, but I think, which starts with me. As the wife has already said Dichand: I think so, that it could reach a salary, if the needs of the individual are limited. And I personally do very well. We can not just run continuously at every holiday holiday, We do have several children. And I think, because you might have to start with ourselves.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, man muss – say you – give up a lot.
Siller Bärbel (Private)
In some, and.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Do you feel, that public services are sufficient for you and your life with this blended family with six children?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
I wish I would have – as I've said in the beginning – that the state would support a certain time. Namely, even by sight ago. The reputation would rise. So I mean -
Eva Dichand (Today)
You could make tax deductible – Child care – for example.
Siller Bärbel (Private)
If only I may finish shortly. The reputation of a mother's day, working from home, not very high. It is also easy, do you work – we hear very often from women, have the children themselves and also work. It hits me personally actually been. And mother and housewife behind the stove, these are all so things, We do not want to hear. And I just think too, There are other professions, such as the secretary, So today is the Office Manager or the kindergarten teacher kindergarten teacher today – Perhaps you could call the mothers day all-round manager or I do not know.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, Allround manager Bärbl Siller tells us that. But Mrs. Dichand, because you have just created a short between, you would have to make childcare tax deductible. For many people this probably does nothing, deserve not so much that is.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Nein, No, But I must say, it brings to the middle class, widely in Austria, very large, die nämlich – there is a certain layer, has no choice anyway, because going to have to work, because otherwise they can not afford the apartment. But there are probably a middle class in Austria, namely the very strong wearing our economy, nämlich die, the tnamely thehere both go to work. And there may -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Everyone pays taxes.
Eva Dichand (Today)
No, two million people in Austria even paying no tax.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Pay no income tax!
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Eva Dichand (Today)
But income tax. But you know, I would very much invited to rounding, I'm telling you, We have the ATX 197 Supervisory boards and these are 7 Women. And that's a problem in a country, that you can make this very difficult career, If you are not – what was funny in the movie – if you married someone rich, because you are in the middle class if you have studied – so to speak, already have a relatively good income – Both often have to work, because if you really are doing a child care, this is still so expensive for us, that very many, doctors are – if you please, who have an education to 30 until they are specialist, because there are thousands in Austria – really long time to work, because they say, I can not afford the.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But that's nonsense! We have two doctors, I'm also not married rich. And you can not afford a nursery place in Austria and in Vienna quite. So as I said -
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
You're gonna get one too?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
And, you also get a.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
You will be able to do things now is not so bad. But again back to the study: I do not think, that one can dismiss the Sun, because you must marry a rich man. There is indeed no other study. Every study says the same thing: Young Women – and young men – want to live with their children, if they can afford it.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
That's not a contradiction with an occupation.
Herman Eva (Private)
But there is a contradiction! I think it is also questionable, as young people, this 77 Percent are here dismissed, naja, This is a romantic notion. Who wish. Ich finde nicht, that are politically well-represented. So if this really is the opinion of these young people – and coincides with Germany about the numbers – and they sit here and say, naja, these are romantic ideas, ich finde gar nichtWellat you can leavI do not think in fact everyone in the audience looks, I'm actually represented. I will not even taken seriously.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
May I ask because maybe some other statistics besides? So if you look at the world now see Staring, then the rich countries children, where women's employment rates are high. And I mean, Of course young women who want children and men also hopefully – while often not as much as the women, sadly, – but when they come into the age, where they decide, whether and when childbearing, yes but then they often hesitate and, interestingly, there are countries with high female employment rates, where there is high fertility rates. Why? Because women do not just rely on Uncle Sam or to her husband, yes they sometimes leaves in doubt. The white one, that it can happen, even if you do not wish to. Women then put children in the world, if they can have the hope, that they can feed themselves, because they rely in doubt but somehow only to itself. And that's why we have such low birth rates.
Herman Eva (Private)
So France will always be happy yes cited. Perhaps even more than the example: Since it is, there are almost all women in employment and who have many children. The fact that these women usually do part-time work and only a few hours – two, three hours – that's all right. Only that will – here it is always, which are, all the work. In Sweden, in Sweden from 2008 The system has been changed, have noticed because the women and men, we are able to build our families do not exist and can not. And since 2008 a child benefit from 300 Euros per child per month payable in addition. All countries -
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
In addition to what?
Herman Eva (Private)
At all other normal – an additional, as we discuss these so-called premium cooker, so since in Sweden 2008 300 Additional EUR.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
400 Euro, or? 436 EuEuro
Herman Eva (Private)
You are much better here. We talk in Germany so -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
And you're gonna get, whether they are in kindergarten or are not.
Herman Eva (Private)
And, exactly. But if we look at, for example,, in Russia, even after decades of cribs policy is the rudder was completely overturned. Since there are few nurseries and the state is doing everything, can remain at home so that the mothers and fathers still bring the money home. That is, have changed the tax system. From the third child is given in some regions of the state is a mini-van. So much is really done.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
Presumably, because the birth rates have gone down dramatically.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Likewise, it is.
Herman Eva (Private)
If they do so, we also, yes they do, we also. The cribs policy changes in many countries. In England, in America – it is everywhere in retreat and -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
I do not think, that there is the absolute truth. There must be freedom of choice, there must be opportunities. Freedom of choice – and we do not have. Every woman, each parent must be able to choose.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
We always come back to this concept. But it must also be economically feasible. They have responded to this statement in my book. This was a particularly interesting study. The same question asked of young women and women politicians. And different responses could not be. While women were of the opinion, so that the waiting period should be extended rather – So not only these two and a half years, we have, but at least until the third year when the child benefit – Women politicians have, should actually represent the wishes of the young women, the opposite said: For far too long, the re-entry does not work, the career opportunities shrink. I am of the opinion, if the difference between the views of women politicians and young mothers so, then there may be a democracy at all only a correction. The politicians need to be geared to the young mothers.
Eva Dichand (Today)
But I must say one thing: You have to remain realistic even. So I have three children. If I'd stayed at home with each child three years – even if I had stayed only one year for each child at home, I would not be anywhere near, where I am now. And so it is everywhere. Because it is naive to believe, if a one to two or three children, two, three years per child remains at home, because you have to belong to the children of this world wonder, But all normal humans, have the normal kind of careers, are after ten years behind the man, with which they have begun with thirty.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Her career is exceptionally.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Nein, No, but also at all. In every hospital you will be lined up behind, because that has worked for ten years longer.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
It's about learning- and occupation.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Nein, No, But I think, the need to express. You have to be aware, okay, So even if I had the basic conditions, I have to make up my mind. Will I be with forty of the superstar and perhaps senior physician, or what I do what I do or what, the branch of Billa guide, get it now somehow to say in different layers. Or I would just stay with my children, I will get there probably is not there, I'm out of quite extraordinary.
Herman Eva (Private)
But that's exactly the point. It is obviously always negative, stay with the children at home need to.
Eva Dichand (Today)
No, why? I do not think at all.
Herman Eva (Private)
Then you could make it so.
Eva Dichand (Today)
And, I could do it anyway, But I must -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But I could use the time in addition to the work with the children. It's the question, whether a parent, their child from baby yoga chauffeured in the English course, whether the child is really doing better than a mother, the home after work and then comes to quality child care that fathers or – howsoever.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Perhaps we are talking about the fathers on Father's Day. But because you're a very good…
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Or maybe then mixed in a round. What would be even more exciting, of course,.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Possibly. But because you have just said, one does not know exactly, What then is the end for the child. On this issue we have an expert here. And I would like to speak with the now very happy. This is a clinical psychologist and psychotherapist Brigitte Sindelar. Good evening, Mrs. Sindelar. Mrs. Sindelar, Perhaps you can tell us, what's better for the child's welfare? 100 Percent of full-time mother care or early learning, from baby yoga to “Early English”?
Brigitte Sindelar (Private)
I am very grateful, that you come back to this question. Because the discussion has now half in the last, forty-five minutes turned to the very subject of money and the economic side. And I totally got the relationship aspect too short. The title of today's program already two complaints to the mothers are inside. One complaint is the bad mother and the other accused is super hen. You know the way, as the bad mother actually makes.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Specifically, it.
Brigitte Sindelar (Private)
Exactly.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Thus, it is. That is a saying, The raven has nothing to do with.
Brigitte Sindelar (Private)
Right, because the bad mother is doing something, that it allows children the freedom, to leave the nest and then, then going out in this still from the nest, care and support. Also, a particularly good mother. If we look now, what you want for the children and what children need. Then I think, First of all, we must hold, Being a mother is in my opinion the most difficult job which it exists at all. The most complicated, the highest demands. It is also the word management skills already fallen, in which one must be incredibly flexible and what children need is not baby yoga and “Early English” or whatever, but what children need is a stable, emotional relationship, a secure attachment to the personality development of the child will also promote best. Much better than any intellectual promotions.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And this stable, emotional bond, is there a difference whether one, if you have the time established, so to speak, whether the eight hours a day with the child acts out or two hours?
Brigitte Sindelar (Private)
This is a question of quality and not quantity. Of course you need some basic measure of the time relationship, But it is not so, that the binding quality is better, the better the time. The child is fairly regardless of who prepared the food, the child is important, Who is my emotional contact.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And now you tell us another one, because it was already so much talk. The question of children, You can hardly talk even to 20 can count. They can probably speaking the same language also learn a foreign language with and even play the piano, before they can stand on its own two feet, that is literally on its own two feet. Do it easily later in life? Are the successful people later times?
Brigitte Sindelar (Private)
We can assume, that they can not bring much. I would like to answer it with an Indian proverb. The Gras does not grow faster, when you pull it.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Thank you very much, Doctor Sindelar, that you have been with us, for their information.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And, the grass does not grow faster, just because you pull it, So the excuse, This is the best thing for the kids, Fairest and best, when they speak, guards and straining again to the baby yoga, makes them, then they are more successful people, So that does not apply, Mrs. Herman?
Herman Eva (Private)
You say, which is not considered, I brought a book, I will not in the camera, It should not advertise, it is only ever, there are no experts, the – say the evidence would or would, that it is good for a child, if it is in the first years close to the mother. This book has twelve international experts, who compiled it and all say the bottom line, similar in animals also, Of course the best part is that it naturally, that the children are with their mother, of course, the father, is clearly important, and perhaps also to know, that the binding, So the children set up in the first three years, yes to all of life is for life and keeps. And -
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Believe, is the genetic or -
Herman Eva (Private)
No, which is designed by nature, easily, and – and the bond, which comes into, also holds until the end of life, But if she does not materialize or to other people, then the child is not binding on the mother and father and there are also studies about such, why have children later, less sense of responsibility for their parent, then for their elderly parents, why are often alone, why the children go no more out there – because the bond was not established.
Eva Dichand (Today)
But I must to say what? I've been pretty much occupied with this subject, investigate the Americans so much on the subject Resilient, So so what makes people so resistant, that they also master really bad problems in life and others fail, So personally – and there is one often come out, that this child überbeschützte, So for now to use the word hen, because I have such friends, So really where the child is so overprotected all day and when it needs to jump over it somewhere, it is lifted over it, and so, and somehow – ich meine, you do that too often only the first, So if you then have several, anyway you have no more energy, ja, and I think, So as with anything, that such a middle ground, that the binding is indeed important, a bond can also of course with his grandparents – can also remove as much, if you have very dedicated, of course not the mother role, but also, and also, Please, a father is also important, It's not all just nut binding, But I think, So you have not had ten hours may be a day with the child, the first three years of life, order to have a child, what does slightly later in life and – also – and it is also, I think, rather the time, So you know the drill itself, if one makes a big budget and just because you have to clean them and do everything possible, ich meine, how busy we are now talking to the child, ja?andI mean
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
And, but the child lives with, participating in the life, because if the mother, I mean, I need not tell you, cooks up, So then the child is cooking with his dolls – living with, So we must – dealing with the child is not, blocks pile up with him, communal life but it can be.
Eva Dichand (Today)
No, no, But you know, what I mean, there are people, which is very easy to do in life -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
Unknown / r (Private)
Dr. Böhm.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
- Dr. Böhm, to urge the government, To refrain from this plan, to make a massive expansion of nurseries. That is something, if an expert is really full with its reputation, turn with his entire reputation into a political debate, to say, this way is not appropriate for children.
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
There are other pediatricians, the very different things to say.
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
The debate was just the way blocked, it gave him no one countered, but it was just gone, because in the -
Eva Dichand (Today)
So you know, where I would rather give, I think, If you are a child of twelve hours a day in a nursery, where 30 other children are, It is certainly not that great, ja, But there are many steps in between, ja, and there's the, what we talked, that -
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
But we do the mothers not always a bad conscience. That is, what we do not, We work one on mothers, There are mothers, who have no other choice, when her child is now twelve hours -
Unknown / r (Private)
And, But why?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
Because they may also – because of their life, have chosen their way of life, that they want to be on the job, that they want to continue their work. You have decided it, from this -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
And, and why do we all go there?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
- and we have an effect on these mothers – and mothers we have a look at this and say, you're all terribly, and -
Unknown / r (Private)
We do not.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
- you're all terribly, you give away your child, it will develop badly.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Are there numbers, how many are actually working at one year and not many do in Austria?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
So it – the child benefit is still the longest variant taken.
Eva Dichand (Today)
Okay.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
I am – I have my children -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
They still say, They have evidently, to bring it in a different direction.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
- ich bin – I am – at a time I had my children, where it has one year may leave money, and, There was no discussion, if someone go to work now – or is not, We now have a longer child care model -
Unknown / r (Private)
The men can take paternity leave?
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
The men must take a share, must be taken when the, There are many men take advantage of. The choice is there, but you also have the women's life – and please do not feel guilty that. As I said,, again, We discuss all doctors and facilities.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Frau Hoffritz hat vorher gesagt, excuse, Frau HoffriMrs. Hoffritz predictedcuss, what did you say -
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
And, So I think that's an interesting debate, because this is a very new phenomenon, that mothers in the mass so as to focus on their one or two children, For centuries, women have children and are – So maybe have a couple of months breastfed, But then they are back on the field and harvest and milk and spin and weave -
Herman Eva (Private)
And the children have taken.
Eva Dichand (Today)
That's what I wanted to just say so, ich glaube nicht, that are better. Ich glaI do not thinka child, was – We say it all extremely, has a mother, perhaps even to the little
Herman Eva (Private)
But that is now prohibited, the debate be managed in such -
Eva Dichand (Today)
Why?
Herman Eva (Private)
- that is to say, that mothers, the home are, the yoga, and the baby-English, is -
Eva Dichand (Today)
Na ja, We have other
Herman Eva (Private)
As we have seen the parents but also, because the parents must be present.
Eva Dichand (Today)
No, but it can also be very simple people, that's an instinct, and you get very much on – Many people get the – are made of very humble beginnings and have parents, where the mitkriegen and find it much easier in life, So I mean -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
I think only, dass wir uns – that we, in public life, are mainly in politics, choose to have, whether we can guarantee this freedom of choice in its entirety or whether we think, that we go in one direction and obviously -
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, Now you say it
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
I will, I tell you, already satisfied first of all, if it would not in the opposite direction, because -
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well you tell us a sum, what would you want?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
No, this 436 Euro, the ten, twelve years have been introduced, are finally adjusted value, dynamic, have greater every year, with inflation and also there should be no step back and then we'll see, how this develops and how the proceeds.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And the best until the age of six, or, to compulsory education?
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
No, I'm telling you, I'm glad, when the, what is there, maintained and is adapted, I have realistic expectations, But without a doubt, this freedom is not only not given, because many people, So we are talking only as of this thin layer with the baby yoga -
Eva Dichand (Today)
In, But as there are now free kindergartens -
Rosenkranz Barbara (Freedom Party)
And, just, and, exactly.
Eva Dichand (Today)
So this is already a step, and.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, Now again I ask the woman Siller, Frau Siller, would be the so, that there are now more money per month than 436 and then graded for children, They would then say, well then I'll get another two, three children, So the money is an argument, to a few children have?
Siller Bärbel (Private)
No, as I have said before, not at all. I also just want to connect only once, what did the woman Sindelar, For me this is simply too important emotional connection, With that said how, my believe, that the child's needs, but also my selfishness, I want to enjoy it, I just want the warmth and closeness to my child have at least three years, would like to see, as it grows, how it develops, not even ten, twelve hours, sometimes there are often 24 Hours, that's me too much, when children are sick and need a lot, we all know, and several days, also very exhausting, But to me it just goes to the emotional bond, and in every case. And the reputation, that of course with the – with the content, that a mother would get maybe then, would also be assured, very well increase, namely in the society.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Well, Now again I ask the three working mothers, They have -
Eva Dichand (Today)
I think that's really great, if one can, So I mean, I think that's great. So just the way she wants, I want it just different and we really decide that both free, we both have probably only just somehow the environment, where it is possible.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
Do you feel, on the emotional bond with your children is lacking somewhere?
Jutta Hoffritz (Private)
So I definitely feel, I on the growth of my son and also to the – the life of the great daughters, although the greatest now living far away in Israel, definitely participate, ja, and -
Eva Dichand (Today)
So I certainly much less than you with my children, because that's just the way, If you're not home all day.
Oberhauser Sabine (ROD)
I have a huge emotional attachment to my children and my children to me and said how, I've tried both models, three years and nine months and has remained the same.
Thurnher Ingrid (ORF)
And I guess, all children have today called on Mother's Day and wish the best, so do we, I thank you for the discussion and tell you more, Ladies and Gentlemen, that right after we here in ORF 2 deal with an alternative form of family life and indeed in the documentary film titled “Warm feelings”, a portrait of two gay couples, the image of the typical gay man and lesbian woman typically correspond entirely not so. And our contribution to the financial statements for more Mother's Day: A poem from the famous Austrian film of the same name and a tribute, for all the mothers immediately after a good dose of humor need, therefore be it, have fun, Have a nice evening!
